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(1)
Thom 78
(2) 2Q: Luke 7:24-27 = Matt 11:7-10
(3) Mark 1:2-3 = Matt 3:3 = Luke 3:4-6 = (?) John 1:19-23
(1) Thom 78
/78.1/ Jesus said, "Why have you come out to the countryside? To see a reed shaken by the wind? /2/And to see a person dressed in soft clothes, [like your] rulers and your powerful ones? /3/ They are dressed in soft clothes, and they cannot understand truth." [Complete Gospels]
(2) 2Q: Luke 7:24-27 = Matt 11:7-10
/7:24/ When John's messengers had gone, Jesus began to speak to the crowds about John: "What did you go out into the wilderness to look at? A reed shaken by the wind? /25/ What then did you go out to see? Someone dressed in soft robes? Look, those who put on fine clothing and live in luxury are in royal palaces. /26/ What then did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I tell you, and more than a prophet. /27/ This is the one about whom it is written, 'See, I am sending my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you.'
=Matt 11:7-10
/11:7/ As they went away, Jesus began to speak to the crowds about John: "What did you go out into the wilderness to look at? A reed shaken by the wind? /8/ What then did you go out to see? Someone dressed in soft robes? Look, those who wear soft robes are in royal palaces. /9/ What then did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I tell you, and more than a prophet. /10/ This is the one about whom it is written, 'See, I am sending my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you.'
(3) Mark 1:2-3 = Matt 3:3 = Luke 3:4-6 = (?) John 1:19-23
/1:2/ As it is written in the prophet Isaiah, "See, I am sending my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way; /3/ the voice of one crying out in the wilderness: 'Prepare the way of the Lord, make his paths straight,'
= Matt 3:3
This is the one of whom the prophet Isaiah spoke when he said, "The voice of one crying out in the wilderness: 'Prepare the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.'"= Luke 3:4-6
/3:4/ as it is written in the book of the words of the prophet Isaiah, "The voice of one crying out in the wilderness: 'Prepare the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. /5/ Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be made low, and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways made smooth; /6/ and all flesh shall see the salvation of God.'"= (?) John 1:19-23
/1:19/ This is the testimony given by John when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, "Who are you?" /20/ He confessed and did not deny it, but confessed, "I am not the Messiah." /21/ And they asked him, "What then? Are you Elijah?" He said, "I am not." "Are you the prophet?" He answered, "No." /22/ Then they said to him, "Who are you? Let us have an answer for those who sent us. What do you say about yourself?" /23/ He said, "I am the voice of one crying out in the wilderness, 'Make straight the way of the Lord,'" as the prophet Isaiah said.
RCL: Year B, Advent 2 and Advent 3
ECUSA: & RC: Year B, Advent 2 and Advent 3
Item: 51
Stratum: I (30-60 CE)
Attestation: Triple
Historicity: +
Common Sayings Tradition: YesCrossan [Historical Jesus, 236-37] deals with this saying as part of his treatment of John the Baptist and Jesus. He begins by noting the complexity of the triple tradition: Q has the twin questions as well as the reference to Malachi 3:1; GThom has the twin questions, a different answer, and lacks the prophetic connection; while Mark 1:2-3 has the prophetic application but neither of the twin questions nor their different answers.
This leads Crossan to propose two originally independent units that have been merged in the Q tradition but can still be seen in Thomas and Mark:
(a) Questions and Answer about John
Thom 78
2Q: Luke 7:24-26 = Matt 11:7-9(b) Applications of Mal 3:1 to John
2Q: Luke 7:27 = Matt 11:10
Mark 1:2-3 = Matt 3:3 = Luke 3:4-6 = (?) John 1:19-23Crossan prefers the Q version of the Q&A concerning John over the form that survives in Thomas, as the latter has been generalized (by omitting John's name) to become a universal teaching. The form in Q can be understood as coming from the historical Jesus and being composed as an affirmation of John's enduring validity as "the Prophet of the Coming One." In the aftermath of John's execution, Jesus is affirming the significance of John by means of a contrast with the weak Antipas.
Such a reconstruction places Jesus firmly within the circle of John's followers, and implies that Jesus "must also have accepted John's apocalyptic expectation, and accepted John as the Prophet of the Coming One." Crossan notes that such a conclusion has to be balanced with the unit 85 Greater Than John (Thom 46; Q 7:28)
IQP
The International Q Project reconstructs the original Q saying as follows:
/7:24/And when they had left, he began to talk to the crowds about John: What did you go out into the wilderness to look at? A reed shaken by the wind? /25/If not, what did you go out to see? A person arrayed in finery? Look, those wearing finery are in kings' houses. /26/But then what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes. I tell you, even more than a prophet. /27/This is the one about whom it has been written: Look, I am sending my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your path in front of you.
Jesus Seminar
Text
Item
Source
JS Mtg
%Red
%Pink
%Gray
%Black
W Avg
Color Thom 78:1-2 Thom 78:3 Luke 7:24b-25 Matt 11:7b-8 Luke 7:26-27 Matt 11:9-10 The Seminar distinguished between the portion of this saying that contrasts the austere prophetic lifestyle of John the Baptist with the luxury of the ruling class (given a borderline Pink vote) and the portion that speaks of John as the promised final prophet (given a Black). While the latter element has no parallel in GThomas, the earlier material seemed to be "authentic Jesus language" because of its scathing criticism of the powerful couched in lively figures of speech. [Five Gospels, 302]
Luedemann [Jesus, 304-306] concludes that this saying originated in the early Christian community and expresses a post-Easter perspective on the question as to whether Jesus really was the one to come at the end of time as announced by John the Baptist.
Meier [Marginal Jew II,137-44] has an extended treatment of the large block of "Baptist traditions" from Q (Luke 7:24-28 || Matt 11:7-11) of which this saying is a part. He accepts the saying as authentic:
... there are a number of arguments in favor of its representing a teaching of the historical Jesus. The absence of any christological concern, the total focus on and praise of John without limitations, the classification of John as a prophet and super-prophet without any use of categories lie forerunner of and witness to Jesus, indeed, the lack of any reference or allusion to Jesus at all, and the lively rhetorical tone that would fit well with the context of Jesus' preaching to the crowds, all recommend Matt 11:7-9 as authentic tradition coming from Jesus. (p. 139)
Gerd Theissen
Theissen [in Shadow of the Galilean as a popular treatment, and as a technical study in "Das 'schwankende Rohr' in Mt 11,7 und die Grundungsmünzsen von Tiberias." in Lokalkolorit und Zeitgeschichte in den Evangelien. NTOA, 8. 26-44] draws on numismatic evidence from Herod Antipas to suggest that the image of wind tossed reeds would have been understood as a reference to Antipas, whose vacillation was in marked contrast to the principled stance taken by the Baptist.
This poem originated as a contribution to the HODOS online community by Gene Stecher. It is published with Gene's consent but he explicitly retains full rights as the creative author. You welcome to use it for personal study and worship, but it should not be published in any other form without the author's prior consent. Index to Gene Stecher's poems
This morning I rose to
comfortable clothes,
walked out of my palace,
and buckled under the stress of less than palacial environs.
I keep looking for my prophecy tongue,
but I'm told that's even scarier.
Fruit or Fire,
Fruit or Fire,
Fruit or Fire,
Fruit or Fire,
There, that wasn't so bad! Guess I told them.
Whoa! Not woe!
All the apples in my pantry are rotted.
Quick! I need a grape, a fig,
anything that doesn't
come from thorns and thistles.